By now, thousands of people have read the column “On the topic of white privilege” that was published in the Collegian last Thursday. Between letters to the editor, online comments and the CSU Privileged Demonstration currently being organized by students on campus, there has been a large collective response of both outrage and support.
While some have written the issue off as the typical controversy started by opinion editorials, others have taken the issue much more seriously. So why does this article matter when everyone is entitled to their own opinion? It matters because the existence of white privilege is not a matter of opinion. It is a fact, and articles like this one perpetuate the privileging of whites and the silencing and erasure of people of color.
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In the article, Burnett espoused a view that is unfortunately supported by many — the position that white privilege does not and cannot exist in a society built upon equal opportunity, and that further, any claims to being oppressed on the basis of race are irrelevant since, as Burnett says, “every social and cultural group since the dawn of humanity has experienced some sort of oppression and it is not exclusive to one race, gender, etc.” However, this view reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of both privilege and oppression, and reproduces racist rhetoric that silences people of color and their experiences under the assumptions of equal opportunity and claims to a universal oppression.
For starters, privilege exists and having it does not make you a bad person. It is a term that refers to the systematic advantaging of one social group over another, meaning that the elevation of one group comes at the disadvantage of another — it is, at its core, a system of power. As activist and author Peggy McIntosh invites us to think about it, white privilege specifically is an “invisible package of unearned assets.” For example, as a white woman writing this article, I can expect to criticize our society and institutions for espousing racist politics without being considered a cultural outsider, while for a person of color, the consequences would be much different.
While having privilege doesn’t make you a bad person, it isn’t supposed to be comfortable to talk about, in part because it is obscured. It is no surprise that white privilege is so hard for white people in particular to recognize and accept when the system of white privilege is maintained through its invisibility. The myth of “equal opportunity” and the resulting claim to universal oppression is one of the ways that this remains so. However, there is no equal opportunity when people of color are still systematically and institutionally excluded, erased, murdered and dehumanized on an everyday basis — a reality that is inextricable from the social histories of slavery, native reservations and many more atrocities.
Furthermore, it is important to recognize that not everyone can be oppressed. It is not uncommon in rhetoric of privilege like Burnett’s to hear whites refute people of colors’ experiences of oppression by claiming to be oppressed themselves. It is true that everyone is capable of suffering, but suffering and oppression are not synonymous, and while these people may be experiencing oppression in other specific ways (class, gender, sexuality, etc.), whites are never oppressed on the basis of their whiteness. Marilyn Frye describes oppression in terms of a “double-bind” that results directly from unequal systems of power. Therefore, it is impossible to be oppressed because of an identity that you are also privileged by. In the systematic privileging of whites over people of color, oppression works by trapping people of color between the realities of institutional racism such as wage gaps, overt discrimination, police brutality, etc. and the consequences of challenging these systems — silencing and erasure through negative stereotyping and violence.
Despite the fundamental misunderstandings about privilege and oppression, Burnett’s article is not anything new when the denial and erasure of white privilege are so common in our society. But instead of demonizing one person for representing views that are oppressive, we should ask ourselves as a campus community and educational institution how we are going to handle the larger rhetoric of racism that this article represents, in order to create a community of inclusion rather than one of oppression.
Collegian Columnist Caroline King can be reached at letters@collegian.com or on Twitter @cgking7.
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 10:26 pm
I think continually making a massive issue of this is bad, and at some point will do more harm than good. In my opinion we are already at that point; as I don’t think there are many people whose outlook on this issue will improve by being made to feel guilty about having white privilege. We are at the point where continually making an issue of things like white privilege will only serve to further divide us as people.
KateAnne93 • Oct 13, 2015 at 7:37 am
The whole point of everything she just said is that it’s not about making people feel guilty about their privilege. It’s about making people aware of it, educating them on the ways they can be participating in oppression by ignoring it, and hopefully showing them how to use their privilege to begin to dismantle the system of power that allows it to exist. Being aware of the way we ARE divided as people by these systems is the only way to erase the divide.
Anonymous • Oct 13, 2015 at 8:18 am
I struggle to understand how being aware of a privileges that do not exist, and if they do are so minuscule that they are insignificant, solves a power system problem that, by association, also does not exist.
KateAnne93 • Oct 13, 2015 at 9:45 am
And that is precisely the reason why you misunderstand me and I misunderstand you. You are adamant in the belief that systematic privilege does not exist and I am adamant in my certainty that it does. I won’t waste time listing all the proof I have for my beliefs because I’m sure you have equal certainty for yours. I’ll leave it at this: You stating that something does not exist does not change the realities for the people who experience it. And if they believe it to be true and existent and detrimental to their lives, you can’t blame them for trying to change it.
Anonymous • Oct 13, 2015 at 10:35 am
That was well put. I agree with you that everyone has trials and tribulations in their life and they all stem from some reason. The point Burnett made and the one that I am trying to defend as well, is that struggles happen upon people of all demographics and is nondiscriminatory on race and bringing up someones ‘privileges’ based solely on their racial background is insensitive and frankly counter productive to progress.
Anonymous • Oct 13, 2015 at 11:18 am
That’s exactly the point I was trying to make. Articles such as this have the intent of prompting people to discuss solutions to the issue, but in reality it just results in a big argument in which everyone ends up feeling as if they are being attacked based on their race. Like I said, there comes a point where things like this are such a non-issue that we would all just be better off to put it behind us. There is unfortunately still real racism in the world, but getting everyone worked up over minuscule privileges that one group might or might not have over another won’t fix that.
Reason • Oct 12, 2015 at 9:26 pm
None of these people seem to understand. Privilege is the echo of past world-states. No, not all white people are intentionally racist (whether or not they are subliminally isn’t an argument that’s worth anyone’s time). HOWEVER, we live in a world with foundations in history, and some of our modern stigmas are, if not inherited directly, at least influenced by older attitudes. That’s the origin and substance of privilege. History’s ripples just need more time to settle.
To be bold, I think the answer is hiding around somewhere where everyone can stop calling people “white people”, “black people”, “Asian people”, and just substitute all of these with ‘people’ or ‘person’. It is division and differentiation that allow racism and -more generally- ‘Us Vs Them’ mindsets to develop.
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 10:15 pm
I completely agree with you. Mentioning differences between people will naturally separate them rather than bring people closer. People from every different sect in the debate find a way to victimize their self which only leads to more controversy and more debate, and thus furthering our society from the end goal of prosperity. This starts and ends with the individual. If everyone works on making their life the best they can then naturally America will be a collective body of unity.
Anon • Oct 29, 2015 at 4:08 pm
I just want to challenge you and whoever agrees with you to consider some of the statements that you have made, seemingly behind the veil of your own privilege. First of all you say, “whether or not they are subliminally isn’t an argument that’s worth anyone’s time.” This is EXTREMELY problematic in that this is exactly what is worth our time. The root of this issue is in the colorblind nature of this community and many others of the like. To say that it being subliminal doesn’t matter flies in the face of any type of progression. Subliminal prejudice IS racism.
Secondly, “History’s ripples just need more time to settle.” I would urge you to recognize that while most people of privilege are very comfortable with waiting until who knows when, those living in these marginalized groups are subject to a lower standard of living EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THEIR LIVES. There is no waiting for equality. That’s like saying, “It’s okay you just keep on suffering it will eventually work itself out.” Its not logical.
Lastly, the elimination of difference, although a viable solution, is not an ideal one. The goal of our generation should be to celebrate difference, not to eliminate it. Changing systematic oppression through eliminating the requirement for racial identification is something that could bring about real change.
Just food for thought.
Reason • Oct 30, 2015 at 1:49 am
On the first bit, the reason that whether the prejudice is subliminal or not doesn’t much matter isn’t to say that if the prejudice is unconscious it doesn’t count; the fact is that it exists and as such cannot be ignored. Whether intentional or not matters little given that it does indeed exist.
I’ll attempt to tackle the second two together. I see no clear and easy solution, which is why I default to waiting. Is it just? Far from it, but hear me out. On the one hand, there appears to be racial discrimination, and the other what seems to be racial celebration, as you say. However, these are on the same spectrum. The one hand views the difference negatively and the other positively. My issue with this is that there is still a perceived difference. I am of the opinion that as long as a distinct difference endures (and yes, I am in this case calling skin color not a distinct difference which seems stupid even to me, but allows for a conclusion to be drawn), then there will still be prejudices carried along with a person’s identity. Where there is notoriety, though praise and celebration may be in the forefront, there will always be those who disdain others for differences. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking and will continually be confounded by base variation through genetics, but I feel that any corrective action to be taken ought to be subtle, but filled with compassion. But hey, what do I know.
Sincerely • Nov 10, 2015 at 8:55 am
Go back to tumblr.
Megan Skeehan • Oct 12, 2015 at 1:52 pm
Hey Caroline,
Notice the general demographic of the people complaining about how you don’t get it, but you do, and your response is eloquently written. Thank you for taking the time to submit this superb piece of writing.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 1:16 pm
It really feels like this whole “privilege” thing is designed to impose guilt onto it’s targetted group, in this case an entire race. Most people in the targetted group usually didn’t do anything to deserve such guilt. Most white people do not hold racist views or perform racist actions. The very perpetuation of this “privilege” movement is consequently a racist and oppressive action within itself.
It seems to me that most people today are fine letting the race thing go, but it’s movements like these that keep dividing people up and pitting them against each other. Finally, it continues this dangerous trend of victimizing ourselves, which robs us of the motivation to better our situation since it allows us to justify the expectation of a handout.
Sure, there will always be racists/sexists/whathaveyou out there, but the social shift has already occured. They are in the minority. People these days aren’t scheming to oppress an entire group. Can we please just put this whole thing behind us and move on? We have the opportunities, all of us, to grow, and instead we’re spending our time and energy on this hogwash.
Megan Skeehan • Oct 12, 2015 at 1:39 pm
If you are feeling white guilt then you obviously feel that you have something to be guilty over. Racism can’t just be “let go” there are institutionalized and socialized forms of oppression that marginalized communities are continually having to face each day. Yes, there is a general social shift, but we can’t just stop and give ourselves a pat on the back and say “good job, the hard work is done,” because the reality is that we have so much more work to do to ensure that we continue to break down the institutionalized oppression on all marginalized identity groups.
http://thehumanist.com/commentary/want-to-help-end-systemic-racism-first-step-drop-the-white-guilt
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 1:58 pm
1) I never said that I felt guilty over anything. I don’t.
2) I never said we should be patting ourselves on the back. It’s pointless and stupid to be proud of where our generation is because we inherited this social condition of a lack of racism; we didn’t strive for it nor create it.
3) It is not my responsibility to drop my own personal concerns to go attack some vague system of oppression out there somewhere. I don’t oppress minority groups and that IS me doing my part.
Megan Skeehan • Oct 12, 2015 at 2:35 pm
Do you call out others when they are obviously or subtly oppressing marginalized identity groups? Do you like to laugh at comical and stereotypical representations of race in media? Do you or do you have friends that wear culturally appropriating apparel on Halloween or another time of the year (reference for you: https://bitchmedia.org/post/costume-cultural-appropriation)? Have you ever called a person of color (specifically a black man) a “thug” or perhaps used the phrase “I was gyped” or “peanut gallery”? If you answer yes or maybe abstain from answering any of those then the reality is that you do participate in the subtle forms of oppression that marginalized groups have to live with daily.
And to be honest yes it is your responsibility, you took the time to write your first response, so take some pride in what you wrote and don’t hide from the implications of what you addressed. You specifically mention guilt and how white people who don’t commit overt racist acts now have to feel guilty… my rhetorical question was pointing out that if one feels guilt, then there must be a reason for it. While you never explicitly said anything about patting ourselves on our backs, you imply that because there is a social shift, people that aren’t obviously racist or homophobic don’t have any more work to do, their hands are clean. But the reality is that even if you don’t commit overt acts domination, that doesn’t mean you are automatically free from accepting the social reality around you.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Whoa, ad hominem much? Thank you so much for implying I participate in such actions. The irony is, while those actions might be racist on one level or another, they’re actually not even oppressive! No non-white would be held back socially over any of those actions. Sure, they might feel bad if they witnessed it, but you know what, some of the things you’re writing are kind of upsetting to me, but I’m not going to allow that to “oppress” me. I’m not going to try to stop you from expressing your opinions.
No, fighting some vague system of institutionalized economic oppression is not my responsibility. I’m on the outskirts of the institution and I’ve got $300 to my name at the moment. I’m not “privileged” in the way you imply and even if I was it still wouldn’t be my responsibility because I, like most other whites, do not participate in oppressive actions. We don’t conspire to hire less minorities, or accept less minorities to college, or give less minorities licenses in this or that. You are making up a problem and then blaming an entire race for it. That’s racist. Sure, racist people do exist, and racist things happen. I’m not denying that, but they are isolated incidents scattered here and there. They are not part of some global conspiracy. And, guess what? Sometimes non-whites are racist against whites. It happens. It sucks. But it’s not common and we move on.
I’m not hiding from the implications of what I wrote, although I suspect you’re going to continue trying to throw more words into my mouth.
Speaking of throwing words into my mouth: I never said that white people have to feel guilty. I said that people like you are trying to make them feel guilty just because they were born white.
You are not being constructive in how you argue with people. You don’t build off what they say and counter their points. In fact, you are destructive. You twist a person’s words to something disconnected from their original statements and attack that instead. You are an antagonizer and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Megan Skeehan • Oct 12, 2015 at 3:11 pm
Here, instead of “twisting” your words almost as badly as you twisted mine, I will give you a couple of articles to read that helped me deal with my issues when I first learned and had to face the reality of white privilege.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-crosleycorcoran/explaining-white-privilege-to-a-broke-white-person_b_5269255.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reverse-racism-isnt-a-thing_55d60a91e4b07addcb45da97
TheQuakeSoldier • Oct 12, 2015 at 7:02 pm
When you’re done laughing at that SJW propaganda, here’s some fact-based articles explaining the truth:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/07/the_myth_of_white_privilege.html
http://bethepeopletv.com/myth-white-privilege/
http://blog.chron.com/texassparkle/2014/05/the-myth-of-white-privilege/
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:35 pm
You guys try so hard to compare and thats where it gets really offensive. Dude its not because we’re poor, or at disadvantage , its because you think that we don’t deserve to argue that this system is corrupt. Its in the history books or rather not because its all glossed over. Slavery was the only genocide without compensation. Like its funny how the average white person would be like well “I” didn’t do that and continue to be patriotic and proud of the outcome. Like my grandpops wasn’t getting his ass beat after emancipation. “Privilege” isn’t being rich its having the upper hand son, “Privilege” is having every body feel bad about the Holocaust and telling those advocating for the genocide that left millions dead, raped, beat, and left in poverty afterwards years to move on. Yeah you haven’t conspired to do anything but thats also the problem we grew up on the same soil yet you treat the culture as if we didn’t, so you choose not to do anything like educate yourself on the situation and be dismissive.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:52 pm
You’re implying that I don’t think the system is corrupt. I do think it’s corrupt. I’m fine with people pointing out that it’s corrupt. I don’t like it when people tell me I’m responsible and should do something about it because I’m just as powerless as you are.
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:04 pm
So even when people are telling you and point out what is wrong. You only care what is on YOU’RE agenda is right?even at the expense of others?You had all the energy to reply back to all these people, just to basically say that it doesn’t matter? What does that tell you about how Americans handled these problems? Its no different.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:10 pm
I’m out of energy. I’m tired of these conversations. I stand behind what I’ve said, and I know that there are people out there that don’t like it. I’m done. I’m out.
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:16 pm
One last question son lol, so you think you’re right, right? this is a real question no beef no nothing.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:27 pm
I think I’m right in that trying to guilt an entire group of people for actions that they didn’t do is divisive and in this case counterproductive. I think I’m right in that most people, at least in this community, are fine with getting along without having race be an issue, and that the “white privilege” movement is making it more of an issue than it otherwise would be.
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:34 pm
Are the statements about white privilege not true at all
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:52 pm
I agree with you Philip the real problem is that blame is placed on those whom aren’t responsible. Putting guilt and blame on someone from a different generation does not solve anything but rather prolongs the wrong choices our predecessors made. Plus the media as you have said above likes a good story so they emphasize wrong doing which then others generalize as being an action of an entire group of people when that is far from accurate. America is a great place providing ample opportunity for all, but it is often seen that the ‘woe is me’ viewpoint is much easier to argue than humble hard work.
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 6:12 pm
Now my point is, so you can knit pick whats wrong with the expression white privilege but we can’t say whats wrong with the white culture? Its proven that to get over a problem you must face it. You think it just gets better action will be taken regardless of how unimportant you think it is son.
Sincerely • Nov 10, 2015 at 8:59 am
You may of course criticize ‘white culture.’ (Though the very term is American centric at its finest.) People are allowed to criticize your culture as well. That’s how the world works.
Rodney Foster • Nov 12, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Yo that’s what I’m saying that’s the point of white privilege its a critique. Nobody is saying white people are horrible lol. Truth is a hard pill go swallow.
Sincerely • Nov 10, 2015 at 8:58 am
How in heck is “peanut gallery” offensive?
Hannah Teicher • Oct 12, 2015 at 2:51 pm
You are racist even if you don’t realize it. All white Americans are. We grow up being taught things that pertain to race; even if you don’t realize this, it’s still true. Our society is structured so that white people have an inherent advantage, Why don’t you educate yourself?
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 3:27 pm
You’re saying that every single white American holds “the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races” (the definition of racism). And you think *I* need to be educated? I think that you’re changing the definitions of words to fit your point. Language and argumentation don’t work like that. If those are the underhanded techniques you use to make your point, what does that say about your argument? It’s manipulative and dishonest.
Hannah Teicher • Oct 12, 2015 at 3:29 pm
Yes, that is the definition of racism; so yes, that’s precisely what I said. I’m glad to know that your reading comprehension skills are up to par. We are taught certain things by the society in which we live, and racism is sadly one of them. Look at Tv and popular culture; how many racial stereotypes do you see? Also, what exactly did I say that was manipulative and dishonest?
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 3:54 pm
Sorry, I thought you were going to change the definition. I jumped the gun. I take back the “manipulative and dishonest” remark and apologize for it.
I don’t think that all whites are racist, though. Things would be way worse for minorities if that was the case. There are racist people, but to think that every single white person in this country thinks that they are superior to other races is delusional.
Hannah Teicher • Oct 12, 2015 at 3:56 pm
Acting on racism and having racist thoughts are two very different things. If it was a dark night and you pulled up to a gas station and saw two black men hanging around the entrance, what would you do? My guess is that you’d leave.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:03 pm
Now you’re the one stereotyping. I, and many other white people I know, wouldn’t care and go about our business.
You know what? I’ll take it a step further. One night I was bicycling home at 3 in the morning when I passed by two black men hunched over a bicycle. I didn’t fear them and distance myself. I didn’t assume they stole the bike. I asked them if they were having issues and fixed their bike for them since I had the tools on me at the time. I didn’t do it because they were black and I was “privileged” so I owed them. I did it because people should help one another. Race wasn’t an element of that encounter until your ignorant comment had me make it be one as an example. But I guess you think all whites are racists…
Hannah Teicher • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:25 pm
Perhaps I made some incorrect assumptions. But my original point still stands and you’ve done nothing to refute that. There are things we have ingrained in us that take a long time to unlearn. That’s all I really wanted to say. Furthermore, if you’re so butthurt over me saying things like this, then I can’t help but wonder what the real issue is.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:39 pm
I’m not butt hurt. I’m also not the one that thinks everyone of a particular race is racist because the media says so/teaches us to be. I’m not here to refute you. I wrote my honest opinion on the subject of the “privilege” movement and got attacked left and right for it, including by you who has called me a racist and implied that I am scared of blacks. It’s not fair that I have to put so much effort into saving face after merely saying that divisive attitudes aren’t helping.
Hannah Teicher • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:41 pm
My issue is that you seem reluctant to admit that any kind of power imbalance and oppressive structure exists in the first place.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Sure it exists, but the racial imbalance is so insignificant in the grand scheme of things (at least in this country, and especially in this town). What about the power imbalance and oppressive structure of the rich vs the poor? The middle class is getting phased out while our entire economy is based on debt. That affects way more lives than racism. Why? Racism is a belief held by an insignificantly small number of people these days, and acted on by even less. Finally, I can do NOTHING about the race thing. Quite frankly, if I choose to be “reluctant to admit that any kind of power imbalance and oppressive structure” that is none of your business.
Hannah Teicher • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:56 pm
Those are all relevant issues, I’m not denying that. However, if your response is to stick your head in the sand and pretend it’s not happening, then you are part of the problem.
TheQuakeSoldier • Oct 12, 2015 at 6:52 pm
Trying to argue with these SJW’s is like trying to convince Fred Phelps that God does not, in fact, hate fags. You’re talking into an endless void of zealotry that no reason or logic can penetrate. Give it up and let them wallow in their cesspool of self-pity. We’ve always been, and continue to be, on the winning side of history. Nothing will change that.
Sincerely • Nov 13, 2015 at 10:12 am
Everyone is a little bit racist. Everyone.
Thao Truong • Oct 12, 2015 at 3:53 pm
you are an example of white privilege, you are overlooking the real issues people of color are facing. We voice out our frustrations and white americans are like stop making a deal out of this. White people don’t deal with institutional racism, that’s why some people claim it’s not there.
Philip Volosov • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:04 pm
Let’s assume you’re right. What would you have me do?
Thao Truong • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:50 pm
For one, stop ignoring the voices of others, and listen to us, help us fight to get treated more equally, stop playing the victim and listen to the actual victims.
Thao Truong • Oct 12, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Honestly, we just want to be heard. I think that’s the best first step
TheQuakeSoldier • Oct 12, 2015 at 6:20 pm
You’re not a victim. You’re a spoiled little brat with so little hardship in her life, you can barely scrape together something to be upset about. Your self-imposed misery will enact no other change than to make true hard-working individuals feel more and more disgust and contempt for you with every passing day, until we reach the breaking point. The future belongs to creators, not complainers.
Thao Truong • Oct 12, 2015 at 7:27 pm
explain your reasoning….
Sincerely • Nov 10, 2015 at 8:57 am
Don’t silence others if you yourself do not wish to be silenced. To call yourself a victim means that you think of yourself as powerless. Are you?
Penguin • Oct 12, 2015 at 9:56 am
Dear racist liberals: I challenge you to make a mass race based generalization about any other racial group and not be called a racist. Now that only non whites can generalize an entire race without being called racist, who is privileged?
OTH_Radar • Oct 12, 2015 at 9:05 pm
Dear Penguin: Go back to the arctic where everyone looks the same so no one will know you’re racist
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 9:42 am
After reading your response to Burnett’s, I feel you do not understand the point she tried to address. You claim her to be oppressive, whilst her point was to forget about what our ancestors have done because their actions do not define who we are. Burnett argues that ones success should be viewed and judged solely on the effort they have put in to achieve said success.
I do find your comments in your last paragraph to be rather counter intuitive. When you say “we should ask ourselves as a campus community and educational institution how we are going to handle the larger rhetoric of racism that this article represents, in order to create a community of inclusion, rather than one of oppression,” you basically mean that many people believe that they are superior to others and have to make the effort to include those inferior to them. Bringing up the topic of oppression in that way is inherently oppressive. Burnett understands this and makes it known that the more we talk about oppression the worse the situation actually gets. All Americans have the opportunity to do great things and if we all just focused on that and what we can do ourselves rather than focus on what others are keeping us from doing then we all might be a little happier. I see it all too often how many times people victimize themselves rather than taking responsibility for the path their life takes.
Megan Skeehan • Oct 12, 2015 at 1:51 pm
We can’t just forget our history and think “well, everything is better now! Go us for not owning slaves” that isn’t the point. The point is that the original article disregarded and attempted to negate the experiences of those who live marginalized identities (groups that the writer attempts to speak for through her own perspective as a white, cis-gendered, woman), which is unfair and strips away their perspectives and their stories and turns it into a discussion about how she is a good person because her ethnic heritage has oppression elements in it. The reality is that when you are white, heterosexual, cis-gendered, able bodied, etc you hold a lot of privilege that you never asked for, that you never wanted maybe, but you have it and you don’t have to think about it. Look at the dominant narratives in the media/tv/radio/film, 90% of the time it is a white man protagonist, rarely a women, and even more rarely a person of color. There are very clear racial disparities in our industrialized prison system, and you can’t say “well, people of color are more like to be criminals” because then you are stereotyping and perpetuating your own white privilege marker.
The reality is that if you are going write a piece about white privilege, it should never be an opinion piece, at least Caroline is using her education and her academic knowledge to prove her points, rather than using her narrow perspective to try to prove a point.
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 2:50 pm
I apologize but I can not help but chuckle at the irony of your argument as it more so solidifies the point that Burnett is trying to make. You assume, based on a picture of her, that she is, as you say, “heterosexual, cis-gendered, able bodied, etc,” however not a single one of these topics were addressed. When you assume these things about a person you also assume because of media that this person has no sort of adversity in their life. This is exactly the point Burnett is making, everyone has struggles in their life, but assuming someone is well off because of their skin color is highly ignorant. Which is why Burnett explains that these points are irrelevant and should be dismissed and that people should solely be judged on the way they conduct themselves and the successes they have made, not because it is handed to them, but to the hard work and dedication they put into their life.
Megan Skeehan • Oct 12, 2015 at 3:03 pm
I never said heterosexual or able bodied in specific reference Megan Burnett, I did go as far to say she was specifically white, a woman and cis-gendered (I assume the advance rhetoric later in my response where I say “The reality is that when you are white, heterosexual, cis-gendered, able bodied, etc you hold a lot of privilege that you never asked for, that you never wanted maybe, but you have it and you don’t have to think about it…” of using a non-specific person for effect was difficult for you to dissect), but she definitely presents as cis-gendered. I know almost all the non-binary and gender queer individuals on campus, and you can easily look her up on social media and see that she is not gender queer by any means (wearing jeans and t shirt does not change a woman from being cis-gendered, i would not have an issue identifying her as a woman), so I feel fairly confident in my assessment (see what I did there? I did research).
So please, tell me where I made overt assumptions about who she is when I did extensive research before I drew any conclusions.
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:25 pm
I am glad to see that Colorado State University has taught you well on the values of research in that looking at pictures of someone and making assumptions qualifies as such. I too can look at your profile picture and make assumptions however that is not what my motives are, thus turning this into a political correctness issue is not something I am going to dive into because nit picking minor details of a rather great point is not worth my time.
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:31 pm
But it isn’t ignorant b/c you just proved this point, you’r so busy putting up this blockade of excuses like there isn’t a divide. We can’t ever have anything without a white person saying something about it. Music, Culture, Style, etc is all attacked by who. You call our music hate speech, you call our ethics ghetto. But lord forbid if i point out there is something wrong with white culture. If your best-friend or enemy is doing something wrong you would want them to know right? So how come when someone tells you whats wrong after all that fake ass empathy you’re angered and its irrelevant
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:39 pm
To help me understand your point will you please explain who ‘we’ is that you keep referring to?
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 5:42 pm
I feel like you’re poking fun at the topic son, b/c you know exactly who im talking about (African Americans).
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 6:11 pm
I am not poking fun I was just seeking clarity. When looking at poverty levels from the US we see that poverty does not discriminate by race.
https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-17.pdf
Although levels of poverty for minorities are higher that does not tell the whole story about actual life. White Americans make up nearly two thirds of the population so the 11 or 12 percent that are in poverty represent vastly more people than the 24-27 percent of the African Americans and Indian Americans who in total make up a much smaller portion of the population as a whole. Hard times does not discriminate among the races. And thus telling someone of white origin that they have more privilege than others is simply inaccurate. That is the beauty of America, yes there were hiccups in our nations past, however these are not definitions on the current nature of things.
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 6:28 pm
The ugly thing about America is the same thing thats “beautiful” about it those aren’t hiccups a whole race was enslaved!! How could that possibly be a hiccup 11 or 12 percent is a vast number than you are making it those are thousands of people. This is what im talking about when i mean by people gloss over things as if they didn’t happen. You know why b/c you can and not feel bad about it that’s privilege. You gave me numbers like they ain’t people that’s dehumanization. And if your really think about if forget just Black people minorities in general. All these numbers and “hiccups” without moral conception. Yes struggle doesn’t discriminate but what ever causes it does for sure, which is what we’re trying to get at. White Privilege is a critique, not an insult the best revolutionaries have came forth and generalized a group of people though critiques, oppressors shoot these down and call them ignorant.
Rodney Foster • Oct 12, 2015 at 6:48 pm
Forget minorities, the middle east is the perfect example. People especially Americans are so opposed to that culture that we would fly freakin warheads over them just b/c we believe that our way of living is better. The Palestine conflict derived from White Privilege. The UN thought it was okay for the Zionist to take land from the Palestinians on what basis son? Self-determination, a term made by Europeans over the fact that they think they’re 100 percent right. Like they know whats right for those people, and people back them like some divine power. There are kids out there dying and you’re out there backing the system like people ain’t dying from it.
Anonymous • Oct 12, 2015 at 10:32 pm
I think you need to do a little bit of history check. All of history is shaped by war and those wars are one hundred percent of the time based on differing ideologies. Without war the US would not be a country and you would not have a safe platform where you feel you have the right to post your opinions. In many countries in the middle east talk such as this is not allowed. Middle eastern radicals try everyday to take away the freedoms given to you by this great nation. Of course the US is obligated to defend what we have for you and for me and for everyone who lives here. I would think twice before ever criticizing the military. Yes they have done things that are heinous but they have also done an overwhelmingly amount of good and without them there would be nothing stopping any country from dropping nukes on all of our doorsteps.
Rodney Foster • Oct 13, 2015 at 12:02 am
No that’s just your perception. That is what white privilege is you sit to cozy on these upity ideas which is just what they are ideas. Non greater then another but you persist that they are better. You once again with radicals proved my point that’s a certain group that you are marginalizing just like you marvel to much about Americas greatness.That great did and still throws everyone but ourselves under the bus. Your right War is stated through ideologies and the Europeans being a bigger offender than anyone. Those theories are romantic and over-nationalistic. Who are the united nations to make the decisions for those with different idea then theirs. Im not arguing with you im telling you what I see. The JSOC intentionally murder middle eastern families you don’t hear about no-one murdering our families over here unless its in urban neighborhoods. Shoot they’ll put a riot squad on us like we live in the middle east son if its in the majorities best interest.You can say what you want but there is way more damage then you think is good. Im sad for you b/c those chickens do come to roost fairly spontaneously. Man there ain’t nothing stopping them now son you think documents and policy uphold without the stain of peoples patience? You think the UN is the only one holding nuclear warfare back? Your kidding right? Its b/c no one wants to die lol. But its that right there what im talking about that attitude of entitlement almost as if you think you’re better then men so you’re just going to spit facts at me like im stupid. That is the ideology that upholds in the government today. The truth hurts and old habits die hard. Its not the people that are the problem, b/c if that was the case the minorities would make hell break loose, its the ideology that you have. Those stigmas, entitlements, and dismissive manner that you have. Like right now right and wrong only matter to you. Idgaf to be honest, i care about the things that I see happening in this world that you don’t see or just don’t care enough to see.
Anonymous • Oct 13, 2015 at 7:53 am
I applaud your beauty
pageant plea for world peace, however I have trouble understanding why you
scrutinize the one entity working towards that goal. You claim white ideology
is the problem through basis of military means. You forget; however, that the military
is jointly made up of people from all racial and demographic backgrounds. When
you say ‘your ideologies’ I can’t help but make you realize it is an ideology
inherent in this nation which you are a part of, therefore you scrutinize the
American ideology which is no longer a debate about racial privilege. This
brings about another great fact about this nation, you disagree so you have the
ability to leave anytime you wish no one is stopping you. I would like to hear
how well this story goes over with Middle Eastern woman whom don’t have that
right to just leave. If they disagree they are brutally raped and beaten. That
is the purpose of the US armed forces to help those who have no voice because
they are ‘oppressed.’ Oppression is the basis behind this whole debate, is it
not? People in America find any chance to complain and say they are oppressed
by those more privileged than themselves however each American has the same
privileges and same possibilities. As Burnett said we all have the
“American Privilege.” Others in the world do not have this and the
more we complain about what is wrong with our system the more people outside
our system suffer. We see the same problems in the world however my viewpoint
allows for possible change. Your cowardice viewpoint of standing idly by while
we let nature run its course will sadly end in suffering more so than there
currently is. Yes America feels the need to push our ideas on others but the
world is too small at this point for us not to. If we don’t take the initiative
to spread our ideas then there will be other oppressors on our doorstep trying
to force theirs on us. I am proud to be part of the America ideology and am
very grateful to all those men and woman defending us. In today’s world words
will not solve problems because everyone wants what others have, therefore the
country with the biggest stick holds the power and I am incredibly proud and
thankful to be part of the US who has the biggest stick.
Rodney Foster • Oct 13, 2015 at 3:12 pm
You have proved my point once again, that you and those like you feel like you’re better than everyone else. You act like your shit doesn’t stink. Americanization is not what im apart of, i was born here that doesn’t mean you accept my culture (mulatto),which based on you’re argument you wouldn’t even compromise with someone whose beneath you. You call my ideas cowardice like i’m wrong, like what im saying has no truth to it. We’re not Gods gift to earth, like who do you think you are? How dare you depreciate others cultures(ethnocentrism). Your downplaying cultural boundaries while stepping over them that what turns perfectly good religious people into radicals b/c they feel like they have to defend they’re selves all the time. At least they would fight and die for their nation, ya’ll won’t even send your kids to intercity schools.You still call us your “black friends” like we’re not up to the standard of being just a friend. Your defending a culture that is set up to oppress people (realism). I’m guessing you ain’t never been to prison so i guess you don’t know that the loudest one in the room is the weakest one in the room,we’re bullies w/ excuses.We don’t even defend anything anymore, notice how we always on the Offensive now? Lol you’re like the kid who sticks his fingers in his ears and is like “lalala im not listening”. Those men and women defending us don’t even want to be there, along with the fact that half of them come back with no benefits and little compensation. You think that saluting the troops is helping them just like saying the racial divide is gone no we just have unmanned the problems. This isn’t a pissing contest people are fucking dying not just globally but here outside your race and culture. Im not trying to be right. I can’t be you and you can’t be me but what we can do is try to understand or at least agree to disagree. Something you wouldn’t think of doing b/c you’re on Americas “big stick” whatever tf that means. Like don’t even comment back b/c now i know what your going to say; the same nationalistic and ethnocentric bs that ya’ll been spewing for decades son. Change is something that inevitable which none of you want to do. But i promise you those chicken will come to roost.
Anonymous • Oct 13, 2015 at 9:45 pm
I am afraid I am going to have to end my debate with you. I enjoy intelligent discussions, however it is obviously apparent that, with you, this will not happen. You believe in a world based on false reality. You victimize yourself at the expense of other groups as you, for some reason, believe all people of European decent are racist. You magnify oppression for your own hubris gains. You scrutinize a country that has given you freedom without a single ounce of gratitude. I bid you adieu to live in your own fantasy land.
Rodney Foster • Oct 14, 2015 at 10:08 am
yeah well its not fantasy when its true son lol
Rodney Foster • Oct 14, 2015 at 10:30 am
If you think that im trying to say that all people from European decent are racist you are ummmm…false. like did i say that? Its more of your culture that holds an oppressive bias. lol Mr. Shakespeare(wait that make since he European to). Freedom, lol im one cop encounter away from getting my ass beat and jailed?? Must be doing something right b/c you keep replying even after i told you not to…Now you wanna end it?who is this guy haha
Ben T • Oct 12, 2015 at 9:33 am
After reading your response to Burnett’s article, I feel you do not understand the point she tried to address. You claim her to be oppressive, whilst her point was to forget about what our ancestors have done because their actions do not define who we are. Burnett argues that ones success should be viewed and judged solely on the effort they have put in to achieve said success.
I do find your comments in your last paragraph to be rather counter intuitive. When you say “we should ask ourselves as a campus community and educational institution how we are going to handle the larger rhetoric of racism that this article represents, in order to create a community of inclusion, rather than one of oppression,” you basically mean that many people believe that they are superior to others and have to make the effort to include those inferior to them. Bringing up the topic of oppression in that way is inherently oppressive. Burnett understands this and makes it known that the more we talk about oppression the worse the situation actually gets. All Americans have the opportunity to do great things and if we all just focused on that and what we can do ourselves rather than focus on what others are keeping us from doing then we all might be a little happier. I see it all too often how many times people victimize themselves rather than taking responsibility for the path their life takes.